Author Topic: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes  (Read 14925 times)

AvFan

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iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« on: April 07, 2013, 07:06:43 pm »
I am new to the forum and I've been using VinylStudio for about a month.  So far I've recored over a dozen albums and I'm still deciding what sampling rate and bit depth suits my need.  I'm recording to AIFF and importing to iTunes.  One of the reasons I want to record my vinyl is to be able to make it portable using an iPod however all the albums I've imported to iTunes will not run on my iPod 160gb Classic.  The songs will not play, or worse, the Classic freezes up and has to be manually reset.  All songs have played via iTunes.

I ran into a similar issue using Audacity where the solution was to avoid creating the metadata in Audacity but to do it in iTunes.  If this is the solution in VinylStudio it defeats much of the convenience of automatically assigning track breaks and song titles.  Has anyone experienced this issue before and if so, does anyone know the solution?  Thanks!

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Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2013, 07:35:37 pm »
Hi,

We've not heard of this happening before.  What format are you saving your tracks in please?  Note that this can be (and often is) different from the format you record to.

AvFan

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2013, 08:07:15 pm »
Thanks for responding so quickly.  I'm recording using AIFF and saving the files as AIFF in iTunes.  I've recorded at 44.1, 48 and 96 sampling rates and either 24 or 32 floating bit depth and they play perfectly on iTunes but they won't play on my Classic.  It could very well be the Classic itself since it is a few years old but its soft/firmware is current.  I can check with my iPhone but I prefer using Classic since it allows me to store a good portion of music using uncompressed AIFF.

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Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 08:39:58 pm »
Would you like to try saving your tracks as Apple Lossless?  This, as the name implies, is a lossless format but it does actually offer a useful level of compression.  With a bit of luck, that will keep your iPod happy and allow you to keep the tagging information in your files.

There's nothing unusual about the way we tag AIFF files as far as I know, so I'm a bit surprised they are knocking your iPod over.  You could try not embedding album art (if you have downloaded any).  That might conceivably cause problems.

AvFan

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 11:40:58 pm »
Thanks for the tip to use Apple Lossless in iTunes.  Let me clarify, my iPod Classic is a 120gb version.  I had various results.
  • A 44.1/32 AIFF recording that was converted to Apple Lossless played just fine on the Classic
  • A 48/24 AIFF recording that was converted to Apple Lossless played on the Classic
  • A 96/24 AIFF recording that was converted to Apple Lossless would not load on to the iPod Classic
So, what I know is Apple Lossless is a more friendly file format than AIFF for my Classic but it can't handle real high sampling rates.  This is good to know but inefficient since I will need three versions of the same song.  One for normal playback at home (AIFF), an Apple Lossless for the Classic and an AAC version for my iPod nano.  Complicating matters is files ripped from CDs in AIFF are just fine on my Classic.  It makes it more work to load things on to various iPods versus just using a smart playlist.  Mmmmmm.

I checked the Apple website and the new 160gb iPod Classic handles AIFF files just as my 120gb version does but it says nothing about allowable sample rates.  Does anyone have any detailed info on the new Classic iPod?  Is the AIFF format used in VinylStudio somehow different than the AIFF used by iTunes?

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Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2013, 12:08:28 pm »
Thanks for this.  I have a reasonably modern iPod touch here, and a new iPhone.  I will do some tests with these and post back here.

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2013, 01:45:12 pm »
OK, here are my results:

1.  Approx 3-year-old iPod running iOS 4.2.1:

AIFF 44/16 - plays OK
AIFF 96/16 - iTunes refuses to transfer, 'not playable on device'
Apple Lossless 44/16 - plays OK
Apple Lossless 96/16 - iTunes refuses to transfer, 'not playable on device'

2.  Approx 4 months old iPhone 5 running iOS 6.1.3:

Same result.

So it looks like 96 kHz files will not play on iOS devices is general.  What is the samplerate of your AIFF files, and how are you transferring them to your iPod?  If they are 96 kHz and you are somehow bypassing iTunes (with its inherent checks), that might explain why they don't play.

One thing I noticed in passing is that iTunes has an option to 'Convert higher bit rate songs to 128/192/256 kbps AAC'.  This might be an option for you - 256 kbps AAC is generally regarded as 'perceptually transparent'.


AvFan

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2013, 02:50:57 pm »
If listening to my vinyl music on my iPod is a priority it looks like I won't be able to record at a high sampling rate and I won't be able to listen to purchased hi def music either. 

Just a reminder that all this music plays through iTunes so here is the info on my AIFF files as they are shown in iTunes:

44.1/32 recording is 2822kbps
48/24 recording is 2304kbps
96/24 recording is 4608kbps
iTunes ripped CDs are 1411kbps

I did some listening tests between 48 and 96 and to be honest I couldn't hear the difference with my system, ears, etc. so I will probably not record or buy music recorded at that sampling rate.  It may have been my imagination but I did think I heard a slight improvement between 48 and 44.1.  That may be attributable to the bit depth as some were at 16 and some were at 24.  I don't have the files anymore so I can't reproduce those results.

Thanks for helping me unravel this situation.

AvFan


Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2013, 03:03:14 pm »
Well, you can record at 96 kHz but you must save your tracks, for the iPod at least, at 48 kHz or below.  You might want to save an additional copy of your tracks at 96kHz for other purposes, but if you are happy with 48/16 or 48/24 then I guess that is all moot.

AvFan

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2013, 04:00:41 pm »
So Apple's iTunes once again thwarts the use of high definition music by limiting what it will play to less than 96. As you suggest there is a work around the iPod's limitations but doing so creates a file management/storage issue to have the highest quality on each device or system. Any suggestions on how to organize all this data would be appreciated before I get too far into the process of recording my vinyl.

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Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2013, 04:13:26 pm »
A lot depends on whether you want higher res versions of your saved tracks for other uses.  If not, life is simple.  Record and save at 44.1 or 48 kHz and save your tracks 'as recorded'.

If you do (also want higher res versions) then record at 96 kHz and contrive to use different file formats for the different uses to which you plan to put these files.  VinylStudio can include the file format in the 'When saving tracks, name them as' setting (which you can set in VinylStudio's Preferences dialog) and this will help keep the various files separate.

BTW, did we establish that the reason why your AIFF files won;t play on your iPod Classic is because they're 96 kHz files?  I'm curious to know.  You can set the samplerate at which tracks are saved in the AIFF options dialog, and there's a button for that in the confirmation dialog that is displayed when you save your tracks.

AvFan

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2013, 05:13:16 pm »
Thanks for the tip on saving the files in iTunes at a different sampling rate. That may just solve the problem with my iPod. FYI it didn't matter what the sampling rate or bit depth was (if less than 96) the AIFF files would not play on the iPod.  I'll take a look at that later today and report back my results. Thanks

AvFan

AvFan

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2013, 01:13:18 pm »
I tried some options yesterday and I'm going to save 44.1/16 AIFF versions of my recorded albums so I can use them on my iPod Classic.  I also steam these files to my stereo via an Airport Express and given the Express' limitations higher res files may be unnecessary.  So for the time being I'll have 1) a smart playlist for CD quality AIFF files and 2) a second smart playlist for higher definition AIFF files for times when I hook my laptop up to my DAC.  The same songs are also saved as AIFF files at various sample rates/bit depth by VinylStudio.  The high def iTunes playlist and files can probably be eliminated if I get a high res player such as Audirvana that would use the high res files saved outside of iTunes.  Is there any other way to do this and save some disc space?

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2013, 02:18:26 pm »
Hi,

You can delete your albums after saving your tracks if you're sure you won't need them again.  This will delete the 'raw' recordings, which are quite large.  OTOH, given the experiences you have had, I'm sure you can see the value of keeping them around in case you need to save your tracks in another format.

VinylStudio V8.5.0 has a feature whereby the tracks saved by VinylStudio can be automatically deleted after adding them to the iTunes Music Library (leaving just the copy in iTunes).  You might want to investigate that.  You can get VinylStudio V8.5.0 from here:

http://www.alpinesoft.co.uk/VinylStudio/download.aspx

AvFan

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Re: iPod 160gb Classic Freezes
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2013, 04:53:28 pm »
Thanks for the suggestion on how to automatically delete the raw files.  I'm going to keep the raw files for now until I absolutely settle on a sampling rate/bit depth for all my recordings and I'm sure I don't want to make any further repairs or alterations.  So far 48/24 has been indistinguishable when played on my system from the vinyl (except for the absence of pops and clicks of course  :D) and it yields a reasonable file size.  But the standard high res download seems to be 96/24.  I think a bit more testing will be in order. 

Are there any other improvements, other than the ability to delete the raw files, in V8.5.0 over V8.3.1 that I'm currently using? And is V8.5.0 mac compatible?

Thanks again!