Author Topic: Can't manage to record at 96 kHz  (Read 9074 times)

urs

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Can't manage to record at 96 kHz
« on: September 07, 2011, 10:49:00 pm »
Hi there!

I just can't make recordings at 24bit / 96khz. I have a E-MU 4040 USB soundcard, that supports this format. And I can use it without problems with this sample rate in other recording software, like e. g. Audacity. There, I can record in 96khz using the MME, DirectSound or the ASIO driver (however, it's said, that Audacity does true 96khz recording only when using the ASIO driver, and would just down- and re-upsample if another driver is used).

When I try to record at 96 khz in VinylStudio, I constantly get the message:

"The sample rate you have selected is not supported by your sound card.  Try reducing the sample rate in the {recording_options_dialog}Recording Options dialog and then try again.  Reducing the turntable speed might also help if speed conversion is enabled. If you are using a USB device, please try a different USB port and / or cable.  If you cannot resolve the problem, please try restarting your PC."

However, changing the sample rate in the recording options does not help. But it works, when I lower the sample rate to 48 khz in the E-MU hardware driver. But that's not what I want...

I have properly uninstalled and reinstalled the e-mu driver and software as well as VinylStudio - with no success.

Now the workaround consists in recording in Audacity with the ASIO driver, and import the result with VinylStudio - of course not the ideal way, as it would be way more comfortable to do everything in the same software - last but not least because of its nice recording features such as the good volume tuning features.

Any solution? THANKS in advance for any help!!!

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 khz
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 12:11:05 am »
It looks like the E-MU wave driver doesn't support 96 kHz.  We do have ASIO on our todo list but I can't give you a definite date.  Best solution for now is to record in Audacity and then import into VinylStudio, moving or linking to the file rather than copying it.

Mind you, many feel (as do I) that 96 kHz is overkill for vinyl.

urs

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 khz
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2011, 06:51:00 am »
Hey Paul,

thank you for your reply!

The strange thing about it is, that I did record at 96 khz some time ago, all within Audacity, and it worked all right. I have no idea what may have happened in between, as far as I can tell, no substantial changes have been made to my laptop however. Maybe some update of Audacity has caused the issue?

I don't think that 96 khz is overkill. The limitations in sound quality are different on vinyl than on digital, so anyway, there is a lost if the song goes through both, vinyl and digital, but this lost can be a bit minimized by holding the resolution as high as possible - provided that there is a decent audio equipment to reproduce it and to make the differences audible. However, those differences are subtle, I admit. But still, I tested a bit, and I got to the conclusion, that it is better to record at a high rate and to down sample after, if a smaller file is required, especially if down-sampling with a simple calculation, such as 96 to 48 khz. That would also be my wish that VinylStudio introduces 88.2 khz recording (not so urgent as ASIO though, imo), as this would make the down-sampling for CD more reliable against quality lost.

So I am indeed looking forward to have ASIO support in VinylStudio

Cheers! Urs

urs

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 khz
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 07:52:46 am »
... in addition to the last entry: You may be right. E-MU "recommends" using the ASIO driver and ASIO compatible software for 96 or 192 khz. However, i KNOW for sure, that I did record at 96 khz in Vinyl Studio before. And E-MU does not say, that 96khz would not work directly to Wave, they just "recommend". Maybe for some latency matter or so that would probably not matter for digitising vinyl...

However, I start wondering, if there is nobody who has programmed some kind of interface, like "ASIO2MME" or so. I mean, a virtual driver, that gets the music from the asio sound card driver and translates it to wave/MME (whatever, just the windows standard, I am not so familiar with all those terms...). And on the output side, it appears like a sound card to the system, delivering 96 khz wave/mme ... and could be used by VinylStudio. Wouldn't it be astonishing, if nobody had programmed that already? At least as far as I know the Windows world, there is a little tool for every useful or useless little wish around. Nota bene, there is a tool for the opposite, "Asio4all", that does exactly that in the other way, translating a MME signal from a non-asio sound card to asio, so it can be used in asio recording software.

Cheers!

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 khz
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 09:30:28 am »
Well, firstly there have been no changes to VinylStudio in this area for a long time so there's nothing we have done that would make it stop working at 96 kHz.  Something else must have changed, and anyway, as you yourself say, nothing is gained over recording at 48 kHz as a sample rate conversion must be done.

I am not aware of any MME 'wrapper' for ASIO and a quick Google search turns up nothing.  It would be useful, I agree, but I'm not sure if it's technically possible.

VinylStudio does now record at 88.2 kHz.

urs

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 khz
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 10:30:22 am »
Thanks.

So I remain waiting patiently for ASIO in VinylStudio...

Just a remark: I think though, yes, there IS a gain when recording at 96khz. It just makes sure the soundcard captures all subtleties of the original recording and performs as good as it can.

For my own use I don't care about large files, and I don't do any conversion, as long as I don't burn a CD or so. And I reproduce the recordings back over a nice DAC at 24bit/96khz, and a decent analogue chain behind it, and I can confirm that they really do sound superior to lower res recordings.

And even if you do a sample rate conversion, e.g. for buring on CD or so, if it's done with a decent algorithm, it might still be better than recording directly to the lower resolution. As recording at higher resolution simply assures the recording hardware performs as good as it can. However, on that question, I have not done any testing. However, nice to know that 88.2 khz is supported now - it will be of use for me as soon as ASIO is here (as without asio, it refuses to record over 48khz).

Thanks again for the good and fast support! Cheers.

urs

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 kHz
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2011, 02:50:50 pm »
Hi again, a couple of messages about this thread dropped into my mailbox, but checking here, nothing actually changed. However, it's a nice opportunity to ask, wether there has been a change regarding the ASIO support? Cheers!

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 kHz
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2011, 03:04:12 pm »
Yes, we are in the process of implementing it.  We will have some beta-test software ready soon.  Would you care to try it?

urs

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 kHz
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2011, 03:14:34 pm »
Yes sure. Just that I am not at home for the next 4 weeks, so maybe I would not be a very responsive beta tester.

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 kHz
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2011, 03:56:33 pm »
OK.  That's unfortunate, as we have been able to test VinylStudio with a limited range of ASIO drivers so far.  I can probably get the software to you within a day or two.  When are you going away?

urs

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 kHz
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2011, 05:02:50 pm »
I leave on Friday. But I will be pretty busy until then. However, I might find a moment on Wednesday. If you manage to send me something before, I will try to find a moment, as I would really be happy if I can help testing it, given that I contributet to this entry on your "wish list". Cheers!

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 kHz
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2011, 05:34:33 pm »
OK, thanks.  I'll do what I can.

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Can't manage to record at 96 kHz
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2011, 05:05:01 pm »
OK, the software is ready.  You can download it from here:

http://www.alpinesoft.co.uk/VinylStudio/VSInstall_V8_20B1.exe

This is a beta build so expect it to be a little slower than the real thing.  Even a simple go / no go test with your audio setup would be useful.