Author Topic: What happened here and what should I have done?  (Read 7593 times)

TheLastMan

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What happened here and what should I have done?
« on: May 10, 2011, 03:15:57 am »
I set up to record an album (Spike by Elvis Costello) as a single recording of both sides. However I fell asleep and missed the end of side 1.  The recording timed out.  Anyway I did the track breaks for side one and exported the files as FLACs to my usual music folder.

I then deleted what I thought was just the recording (album was retained) and recorded side 2 and saved the FLAC files for that. However... I open up the target folder and find that it has saved the side 2 tracks but deleted the side 1 tracks.  OK, obviously I did something wrong. However when I looked for the deleted tracks from side 1 in the Windows recycle bin... not there either...  Arrrghhh!!!

If a recording times out before all the tracks can be captured, what is the procedure for recording the remaining tracks?  As it stands it looks like the only way is to record the whole album again - which is a pain. If there is another procedure it is not obvious or intuitive.

It would also be handy if the program decides to delete anything to send the files to the Windows recycle bin so that they can be recovered if necessary.  This is particularly the case for files created using the "Save Tracks" function.  I don't want VinylStudio deleting files from my music folder - that is my job.
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Matt

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: What happened here and what should I have done?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2011, 11:34:29 am »
Hi,

You should not have panicked :)  The recording for side 1 sounds like it was complete, so you could just have gine ahead and recorded side 2 in the normal way.  Recordings timing out between tracks is rare and can be cured by changing the needle up timeout setting, but if it does happen one possible recovery procedure is to record the rest of side 1 as side 2, then record side 2 as side 3 and so on.  It is not, in general, possible to extend audio files - the structure of these files is too complex to permit that (although it would be feasible for WAV files).

We don't delete to the recycle bin because audio files are so large and people are usually trying to recover disk space when they do this.  We will review this policy.

TheLastMan

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Re: What happened here and what should I have done?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2011, 04:10:05 pm »
I see about just recording side 2.  But being a newby I was not sure what the effect was of having previously chosen to record both sides as a single file. There were 12 tracks on the album and the program tried to subdivide the recording of side 1 (45 minutes  including about 20 minutes of clicks in the lead out track) into the 12 tracks of the whole album.  I will have to experiment with recording each side separately so I am familiar with the process.

I must admit I was surprised that the program deleted the previous set of output files by default.  I would at least have expected a prompt asking me if I wished to delete them.

I also do think it is a mistake to default to not using the recycle bin. I can see the point of having the option to bypass the bin, but that should be a positive decision of the user.  If somebody is trying to save space then they can always delete the files from the recycle bin later if they miss the option to bypass it.

Currently the program defaults to deleting the files without a prompt and then bypasses the recycle bin.  Just one of these safeguards would have been enough to stop me making a mistake.  Generally I think programs should "fail safe" and not delete things by default. At the very least the program should warn that to proceed would result in files being deleted.

What happened with me was that I deleted the track data for side 2 from the album before I converted the files for side 1.  Then when using the recording of side 2 I deleted the track data for side 1 before I converted the files for side 2.  I thought this would then result in the tracks for side 2 being added to the folder with those for side 1.  What I had actually done is make the program think that the whole album had changed and that I was replacing the tracks not adding to them.

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Matt

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: What happened here and what should I have done?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2011, 04:18:04 pm »
VinylStudio never deletes files without requesting confirmation first.  I'm not sure exactly what you did but I can assure you that is true.

Recordings do not time out in the usual run of things.  Are you using 'wait for needle down'?  This is designed to avoid such problems.  Perhaps your record deck does not lift the arm at the end of the side.

I take your point about the recycle bin - the question has been raised before.  We will do something about this when time permits.

TheLastMan

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Re: What happened here and what should I have done?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2011, 06:28:06 pm »
VinylStudio never deletes files without requesting confirmation first.  I'm not sure exactly what you did but I can assure you that is true.
I will try and analyse what I did.  This occurred with the final output files, not the recording. IIRC when I deleted the recording I think there may have been a tick box asking something like "delete saved tracks as well?" that was ticked by default. I am fairly sure I un-ticked the box, but it was not a particularly obvious warning and I could have missed it at some point in the process.

I think I was doing something not envisaged at all when the program was created!

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Perhaps your record deck does not lift the arm at the end of the side.
As you suspect, it does not lift the arm. I am using the "needle down" function, it is just the clicks on the lead-out track reset the 20 second timer each rotation and the program carries on recording until the "Maximum Recording Time".  I had set this for 45 minutes.

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I take your point about the recycle bin - the question has been raised before.  We will do something about this when time permits.
Thanks for your prompt response.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 06:34:56 pm by TheLastMan »
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Matt

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: What happened here and what should I have done?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2011, 08:10:02 pm »
OK, I think I know what happened here.  After you deleted your original 'side 1' recording (which, as we have covered, was a bad move) you then deleted the tracks for that side.  When you delete tracks, VinylStudio deletes the corresponding saved track files.  It does this to keep things in step.  There is a confirmation message but it includes a 'Don't show this message again' box which might have been ticked at some time in the past.

So what you should have done is retained side 1 and just carried on and recorded side 2.  VinylStudio's view of saved tracks is that it does all it can to keep them in step with the recordings and trackbreaks defines in its database.  Hopefuilly this helps you understand why it does what it does.

TheLastMan

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Re: What happened here and what should I have done?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2011, 10:34:02 am »
VinylStudio's view of saved tracks is that it does all it can to keep them in step with the recordings and trackbreaks defines in its database.  Hopefuilly this helps you understand why it does what it does.
Generally I am very pleased with Vinylstudio - it does what I need it to do very well.  I think I will experiment with recording each side separately as I think this may suit the way I work better.

However, I am not so sure I want it to keep the "saved tracks" in step with "recordings" in quite the way you describe.  I can see how this may be useful to some people, but I prefer to manage my music collection myself. I also tend to view the "recordings" as temporary files that can be deleted once I have created the individual FLAC files - otherwise I will end up "triplicating" my collection (recordings, FLAC files, MP3 files).

My music collection contains CD rips and downloads as well as outputs from LP recordings and I am often tweaking tags and shuffling things around.  So what I want VinylStudio to do is essentially 'forget' saved tracks once it has created them - or at least not to delete them.

Is there any way to reinstate the confirmation message regarding deleting saved tracks?
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Matt

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: What happened here and what should I have done?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2011, 11:38:08 am »
Hi,

If you delete an album from your collection, VinylStudio will forget about it entirely (and leave your saved tracks alone).  It's only when you delete individual tracks that VinylStudio deletes the saved tracks.  If you think about it, this makes sense.  VinylStudio assumes that you are making corrections to an album and will subsequently save the tracks again.

To reinstate the missing message, select "Revive all Don't Show This Again Messages" from the Options menu.

TheLastMan

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Re: What happened here and what should I have done?
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2011, 01:37:47 pm »
Thanks for that, it all makes perfect sense now. Hopefully I won't make the same mistake again!
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Matt