Author Topic: Clicks when recording with Vinyl Studio  (Read 8376 times)

mgd

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Clicks when recording with Vinyl Studio
« on: June 21, 2010, 10:48:21 pm »
Hi Paul,

I having problems with my NAD PP3 which has a high-pitched noise when recording from USB. I am currently trying to convince my NAD dealer that this is a problem, but that is another story.

Because of my problems with the NAD PP3, I have made some test recordings with Vinyl Studio but I have problems (not related to the NAD PP3 device) with static clicks in my recordings which increase with the input volume. The recording level is not even near the red level in the VU meter.

I have made three test recordings. For sound source I am using a Logitech Squeezebox Receiver's analog output which is fed to the Line-in on the NAD PP3.
Recording 1) is recorded using Garage Band on my MacBook Pro. It has three parts:
a) Recording using line-out from the PP3 connected to my Mac's analog line-in.
b) Recording using USB from PP3 connected to my Mac. The analog cable is still connecting the PP3 to the Mac.
c) Recording using USB from PP3 connected to my Mac but this time the analog cable is disconnected.

1a contains only the noise present on the recording (white noise hiss and breathing of the piano player.)
1b has the annoying high-pitched noise from the PP3.
1c has a little less noise than 1b (apparently some digital noise from the Mac reaches the analog side of the AD in the NAD PP3 and it seems more noise goes to the PP3 the more cables attached).

Recording 2) is recorded using Vinyl Studio on my MacBook Pro as well. This recording corresponds to 1a as it is recorded using the Mac's line-in connected to line-out of the PP3.

If you compare 1a and 2 (which are recorded at exactly the same input level) you will notice a little distortion as well as some annoying clicks on recording 2. The clicks increase the louder the piano player plays.

Recording 3) is a recording at a louder level and of a louder passage of the same song. The input level is still way clear of the red level on the VU meter but the audible clicks are very easy to hear.

As the recordings are larger than 128KB I cannot attach them to this post but would be happy to send them to you in another way.

Is this a known problem with Vinyl Studio on Mac?
I am using version 7.1.4 on Mac, the trial version.

I hope you can help me.

Regards,
Martin

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Clicks when recording with Vinyl Studio
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2010, 11:35:55 pm »
No, definitely not.  Nobody else is reporting anything like this so something else must be going on.  What input device did you select in VinylStudio's Check Level dialog?  Does it correspond to the one you were using in Garage Band?

And yes, please do send the recordings.  You can email them to:

p DOT sanders AT alpinesoft DOT co DOT uk

Thanks.

mgd

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Re: Clicks when recording with Vinyl Studio
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2010, 11:49:01 pm »
Hi Paul,

> What input device did you select in VinylStudio's Check Level dialog?
> Does it correspond to the one you were using in Garage Band?

I used the input source "Built-in Input - Line In" which is the same I used in Garage Band.

I will e-mail the sound files to you right away.

Regards,
Martin

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Clicks when recording with Vinyl Studio
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2010, 11:20:21 am »
Hi Martin,

I got the recordings - thanks very much.  I have to say that I can't hear any difference between them but your ears are probably better than mine.  What I do notice though is that you're recording to a compressed format and what you are hearing is probably compression artefacts.  You used a different format for your Garage Band recordings than the ones made in VinylStudio and that might explain the difference.

You can hear these artefacts very clearly if you open VinylStudio's Graphic Equaliser and boost the top three treble bands to maximum.  Listen on headphones and you will be amazed at what this reveals.  The 'piano player breathing' that you mentioned is in fact these artefacts, as far as I can tell.

So, in brief, record to an uncompressed format and see if things improve.  There will be a new version of VinylStudio out (we hope) later this week which will support both FLAC and Apple Lossless formats.  These save about 40% of disk space with no loss of quality.  For now, record to WAV.  You can convert the files when you get the new version and get some disk spae back.

Rgds - Paul Sanders.

mgd

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Re: Clicks when recording with Vinyl Studio
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2010, 02:05:15 pm »
Hi Paul,

In Garage Band I exported as MP3. However, I still have the original recording uncompressed and can export it from Garage Band as AIFF which is uncompressed. The recording from Vinyl Studio is in WAV but I used iTunes to compress it. However, I still have the original WAV.

I will send you both files tonight.

The clicks were audible already inside Vinyl Studio when using the "Monitor Recording" option.

I will also do another recording of a song with a generally higher input level (of course taking care not to overload the VU meter). I will also send you these recordings uncompressed.

I am sure you will be able to hear the clicks.

Like you, I do not understand what is causing this. It might be something specific to my Mac (as I am sure you would have heard from other users if this was a general problem), but the machine is fairly new (a few months). I will try to reboot and quit all unnecessary programs.

Regards,
Martin

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Clicks when recording with Vinyl Studio
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2010, 02:14:28 pm »
Sorry, forget what I just wrote if you ever read it.  I can hear something.  I will investigate.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 02:25:13 pm by Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft) »

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Clicks when recording with Vinyl Studio
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2010, 02:45:51 pm »
OK, I had a closer look and you're right, there's something there.   It might be connected with converting the samplerate from whatever the sound card supports to the rate you recorded at (which I'm assuming was 44 kHz).  Can you send me some more information please?

1.  From the Finder menu, select Go -> Utilities

2.  Run the Console application

3.  In the toolbar, click Show Log List (if necessary).

4.  In the left-hand pane, navigate to:

FILES
    ~/Library/Logs      (note the squiggle)
        VinylStudio.log

5.  Select all the text in the right-hand pane and paste it into an email.

I hope then to have a better idea of what's going on.

In the meantime, I will dig into it further here.  If I can reproduce the problem, I'll let you know.

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Clicks when recording with Vinyl Studio
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2010, 04:10:23 pm »
Update: Humble pie time - it's a bug.

It's not been noticed before because the effects are very subtle and can only be heard on pure notes like (say) piano and violin.  This is a good time to find it as we are about to make a release so I'm very grateful that you (a) brought it up in the first place, and (b) persisted in saying it.

So, no need to send me any more files.  We will issue a new version of the software (V7.5.0) within the next few days.

Rgds - Paul Sanders.

mgd

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Re: Clicks when recording with Vinyl Studio
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2010, 07:27:09 pm »
Hi Paul,

Glad you found the problem. If you still need the ~Library/Logs/VinylStudio.log logfile, please let me know, and I will send it to you promptly.

Regards,
Martin

Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)

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Re: Clicks when recording with Vinyl Studio
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2010, 08:06:02 pm »
No that's fine thanks.  It was actually a very simple bug, once I got down to it.  We'll issue an update this week or early next.  VinylStudio itself will tell you when.  'Til then, and to anybody else affected, sorry for the boo-boo.