AlpineSoft Support Forums

Forum List => Technical Support => Topic started by: Guido Kuppens on January 23, 2013, 03:14:25 PM

Title: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 23, 2013, 03:14:25 PM
During recording an LP the program often stops recording. I don't get any message but I notice it when the green bars of the recording control stop moving. It can happen up to 3 times per LP. I'm using version V8.3.1 and I'm always recording to WAV format. Any ideas?
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft) on January 23, 2013, 03:38:08 PM
Hi,

What audio hardware do you have in your PC please?  Is it a NAD PP-3?  And what version of Windows are you using please (XP / Vista / Windows 7 / Windows 8)?  Thanks.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 23, 2013, 05:54:37 PM
It is NAD PP3i indeed, on a laptop with Windows Vista.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft) on January 23, 2013, 06:12:00 PM
Well it could be a hardware fault but there are a few things we can try before reaching that conclusion.  Please try:

  - a different USB cable

  - a different USB port

  - unchecking 'use WASAPI' in VinylStudio's Check Level dialog

Thanks.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 23, 2013, 09:27:05 PM
None of the above helped... Are you suggesting there might be a problem with my preamplifier NAD PP 3i? Have you encountered this problem before?
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft) on January 23, 2013, 09:39:11 PM
Yes, we have had a couple of other reports, both with the NAD PP-3 and both quite recent.  The thing is that we do nothing differently, in terms of programming, with the PP-3 than we do for any other audio device and the software has not changed in the last 6 months so I don't think it's us.  All that we know is that audio stops arriving for no apparent reason.

Something you could try would be to record a few records in Audacity to see if you get the same problem.  Audacity is a free download from here:

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows

Can I ask you, do the recording level indicators just stop moving when this happens or do they go to zero?  It would help to know.  Sorry I can't offer you an immediate fix but we're struggling for a solution at the moment.  Thank you for your patience.

Also: sorry to use you as a guinea pig but I don't see the problem here so I cannot follow it up myself.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 24, 2013, 10:10:49 AM
I will try the other software and let you know the result. And to answer your question: the level indicators just stop to move and don't go back to zero: they keep hanging in the position where the recording stopped.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft) on January 24, 2013, 11:52:03 AM
OK, thanks.  I went back through my support logs and in fact we have just one other case, also on Vista. Although the evidence is a bit thin I'm wondering if Microsoft, via Windows Update, have introduced a problem with the PP-3 (or, rather, the USB Audio CODEC device).  I will do some tests here to see if I can replicate the problem.  We have a lot of PP-3 users so the circumstances that cause it must be a bit unusual or we would know about it.

Another thing you might try is installing something called ASIO4All and telling VinylStudio to record via ASIO.  Let me know if you'd like to try this and I'll give you details.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 24, 2013, 12:29:26 PM
Let me first try the Audacity option (I'm learning now how to use it). Then you'll hear from me again.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 24, 2013, 12:54:21 PM
The recording stops with Audacity as well. The first time after less than 2 minutes! So please tell me about the ASIO thing...
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 24, 2013, 01:07:48 PM
Additional information: I'm working on my wife's laptop: it has Windows Vista Home Premium (Service Pack 2) and as far as I know the important updates have been installed (the last on 11/01/2013). The situation on my desktop (also Vista Home Premium Service Pack 2) will be pretty much the same, I think.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft) on January 24, 2013, 01:41:05 PM
Hi,

Update, 25Jan13: We have now confirmed that this problem exists on both Windows 7 and Vista.  Furthermore, using ASIO4ALL as described in the post fixes the problem so that is our advice for users sufferring with this issue.  We apologise for any inconvenience for what we believe is an issue with Windows itself.  We will take this up with Microsoft (wish us luck!).

I'm running some tests here.  So far I can't reproduce the problem but I don't have all the latest updates installed so the next step is to install these and try again.  From what evidence I have, your desktop will probably work OK.  I think the problem only occurs on specific machines.

As for ASIO4ALL, you can download it from here:

http://download.cnet.com/ASIO4ALL/3000-2120_4-75724497.html

After you have installed it, open VinylStudio's Check Level dialog and select ASIO as the input source.  Then open the ASIO Control Panel (a button to do that will appear) and select USB Audio Codec as the active device, like so:

(http://www.alpinesoft.co.uk/forum_images/asio_control_panel.png)

You might need to click 'Retry' in the Check Level dialog (or possibly shut down VinylStudio, close the ASIO control panel and then restart VinylStudio) before this device appears correctly.  Once you've got it set up right it should look like this:

(http://www.alpinesoft.co.uk/forum_images/asio_check_level_dialog.png)

Then record as normal.

There's yet another thing we can try, but it involves an additional cable.  Let's see if ASIO4ALL does the trick first.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 25, 2013, 10:16:08 AM
I installed ASIO and checked the ASIO settings, but there is one difference: in the check level panel I don't get "USB audio CODEC 1/2" in the left/right boxes, as in yours. I only get "HD Audio Line input 1/2", with no other options to choose. And I can't check the recording level: the level indicators don't move and there is no recording possible. When I set the input source back to Audio CODEC, the indicators do move again. But then of course I still have the stop problem. What can I do?
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft) on January 25, 2013, 10:43:02 AM
Hi,

I have amended the ASIO Control Panel screenshot above to emphasise how it should look.  Get it looking like that and you should be OK.  It is sometimes necessary to close the ASIO control panel and shut down and restart VinylStudio for your changes to take effect.

On a different note, I have some news.  I have now managed to reproduce the fault here (on a Windows 7 system, in fact).  Recording stopped after about 90 minutes.  I then recorded via ASIO and ir ran all night without problems so I think that ASIO4ALL is the way to go.

Do please let me know how you get on.  I will endeavour to get Microsoft's attention on this issue and try to work out which update is responsible for the problem.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 25, 2013, 12:16:42 PM
The ASIO settings were as you indicated (except that on the left side of the contrrol panel I only have 2 options: Realtek High Def Audio and USB Audio CODEC, which is active). I also shut down several times the control panel and Vinyl Studio. The situation (also in the boxes of the check level panel) is exactly the same as I indicated in my post earlier today. There is still a difference with the image of the check level panel you showed.
What should I do to get exactly the same settings?
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 25, 2013, 12:25:08 PM
Sorry! I looked it over once again and noticed that in my ASIO control panel USB Audio CODEC is highlighted, but thatll  the status is still idle. In fact, Realtek is still active. But I can't find a way to change that (= to move the little triangle from Realtek to Audio CODEC). I clicked as a fool, but nothing changed. How..?
(Thank you for your patience)
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft) on January 25, 2013, 12:44:25 PM
Hi,

Try clicking the 'Retry' button in VinylStudio's Check Level dialog.  If that doesn't work, can you send me a screenshot of the ASIO Control Panel please?  Please do this with VinylStudio's Check Level dialog open.

To take a screenshot:

1.  Click on the window you want to capture
 
2.  Press ALT + Print Screen
 
3.  Open the Windows Paint application (you will find it under Start Menu - All Programs - Accessories - Paint)
 
4.  Select 'Paste' from the Edit menu
 
5.  Save the file as a GIF (so that it is small enough to email)
 
6.  Email it to me as an attachment at p DOT sanders AT alpinesoft DOT co DOT uk.  Thanks.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 25, 2013, 02:14:27 PM
Yes! The retry button helped. I'm recording again and will let you know if I'm succesful. I noticed that with ASIO I can't adjust myself the recording level but that it's automatic?
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft) on January 25, 2013, 02:26:22 PM
Excellent, best of luck, please let us know how it goes.

The recording level is fixed on the PP-3 (and all other devices using USB Audio CODEC).  The slider just adjusts digital gain, which is a Bad Thing*, so we have (and recommend the use of) the 'Set Digital Gain to 1' button in the Check Level dialog with these devices.

To put it another way, you're not missing anything.  NAD have calibrated the PP-3 for the most popular cartridges so you should be OK.

-------------

*Because it either masks clipping in the analog to digital converter or increases the likelihood of clipping the digitised signal, depending on whether you set it below or above 1.  What you want is a direct signal path and setting the digital gain to 1 (which is the only option with ASIO) achieves this.  If the recording is too quiet, use the 'Normalise' button in VinylStudio's Graphic Equaliser dialog after recording.
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Guido Kuppens on January 27, 2013, 09:03:43 AM
Since my last post I recorded about 8 of 9 albums. Every now and then the program still stops the recording, but most of the time I am able now to record several albums in a row without problem. It still is not perfect, but I can live with it. Thank you for your help and your quick answers to my questions.
Guido Kuppens
Title: Re: recording stops
Post by: Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft) on January 27, 2013, 11:14:25 AM
OK, thank you.  Another customer reports that things are better if he disconnects anything connected to the line-out sockets of the PP-3 so if you have anything connected to these I would try removing it.

We will continue to pursue this with Microsoft via Technet.  No response so far.