Normalization and output volume levels

[Roy_Boy_3345]

I have ripped two versions of the same album to 24/352 via my RME ADI-2 Pro. The album in question is an OG version of Heart - Dreamboat Annie and the recent MoFi 45RPM version. Both albums were normalized to -1 db. However when I play them back via my Lumin A1 streamer/dac the newer MoFi requires much more volume gain to reach the same playback volume as the OG. The only thing I can think of that might cause this is the MoFi version having less compression. Any other ideas that might cause this? I will also add that I recently upgraded to the pro version of VInylStudio so the two records were ripped at different times with different versions. Thanks for any insights.

[Roy_Boy_3345]

I forgot to mention that I normalized each record side independently for both records. My judgement was based on the first track on side one for each record

[Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)]

Hi,

Two things come to mind:

1.  You might like to use the 'Normalise each track separately' option to see if that improves things.

2.  VinylStudio's normalisation algorithm is fairly basic.  We do plan to work on this when time permits.

[westrock2000]

Do the wave forms looks different between the two? If the Mobile Fidelity version has a bigger waver form then it is compression giving the perception of louder volume.

[Roy_Boy_3345]

I have a follow up related question/issue.  Now that I have ripped about 1200 albums and I  wanted to check if it was time to get my Soundsmith Paua II cartridge retipped.  So I re-ripped two of the earlier albums I ripped back in 2020 so I could compare.  I am playing back the files from my Synology NAS / Minimserver via a Lumin A1 streamer. The only difference between the two rips would be the VinylStudio versions and the firmware version on my RME ADI-2 Pro A/D.  I normalized both rips to -1 db normalizing both sides of the record separately. 
  The issue is that the playback levels are very different. My Lumin has a digital readout of the volume level.  I played back the 2020 rips at 50.  To achieve the same volume level on the current 2025 tips I needed to be at 70.  That is crazy. What might cause this?

[Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)]

There might be a transient throwing off VinylStudio's normalisation algorithm - it is rather simple-minded.  Did you try 'smart normalise'?  That ignores the leadin, leadout and gaps between tracks (assuming you have set the track break markers appropriately).

[Roy_Boy_3345]

I tried the smart normalization that did not change anything. I also tried backing off the sensitivity in the click tool on protect percussion from max to 3...That also had no effect on the resultant  gain of the preamp sliders after normalization. I feel like the input record level meters are lying to me. Is there a place I can visually see the result waveform after normalization and how close it is to -1 db such that I could manually adjust the preamp slides but avoid clipping? In the cleanup tool tab I see the waveform but the vertical scale is -1 to +1. Not sure how that relates to 0db or -1db. Thanks

[Roy_Boy_3345]

I imported the finalized tracks from the 2020 recording to compare to the finalized 2025 tracks.  In the 2020 version the first track almost touches the +1 and -1 in the cleanup tracks view. The 20205 first track looks like it gets to maybe +.4 and -.4.  Both are normalized to -1db.  Very strange

[Roy_Boy_3345]

Is there a way to visually see the resultant waveform after normalizatio? When I click the button to toggle between corrected and uncorrected audio I can see what I think is the changes of click removal. I am not seeing the result of normalizing to -1 db. This might help me manually adjust the preamp sliders without clipping to achieve my desired result.   

[Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)]

Only by saving a copy of the file you just normalised (which you can do by right-clicking on the filename and selecting 'Save a copy').  Make sure that 'Save corrections' is checked.

The waveform display for the saved copy then shows the result of normalising (and any other filters you have applied).

But you should trust VinylStudio's normalisation algorithm.  It wont clip, even at 0dB.

[Roy_Boy_3345]

Paul,
  So I got my re-tipped Soundsmith Paua II cartridge back from Soundsmith and re-ripped Jennifer Warnes - Famous Blue Raincoat. The only difference between the new and old rip are that the RME ADI-2 Pro has newer firmware and VinylStudio version is newer and been upgraded to Pro. I played back one track from both version from my NAS via Lumin A1 keeping the volume control at the same position. The newer rip is about 3db lower than the original. Both were normalized to -1db. I measured this with an iPhone db meter monitoring the first 30 seconds of each track and noting the max dbC. The newer rip was noticeably softer to my ears as well. I am perplexed why they should be so different. Is there anything/setting in the Pro version that might cause this result? Thanks and sorry for being such a pest on this

[Roy_Boy_3345]

I also opened the two tracks in Audacity to compare the levels. I put that in a Pages doc. I do not think I can paste a screen shot or attach a file to this thread. Let me know if there is a way I can get that info to you if it is helpful.

[Paul Sanders (AlpineSoft)]

Hi,

Have you tried 'smart normalisation'?  That attempts to avoid transients in between tracks.

Also, I would normalise to 0dB.

You can send files here:

p DOT sanders AT alpinesoft DOT co DOT uk

[Roy_Boy_3345]

Paul,
   I have been doing smart normalization. I will send you the two screen shots from Audacity. It seems like my problems did not start until I upgraded to the Pro Version in order to be able to experiment with recording in DSD.